Agency Bytes

Ep 124 – Joe Rojas, Start Grow Manage – Building a Freedom-First Business

Featuring: Joe Rojas, Start Grow Manage

In episode 124, I sit down with Joe Rojas, founder of Start Grow Manage and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. Joe has built and sold multiple MSPs, each time leveraging the power of deep niching to accelerate growth. We talk about the pivotal inflection points in a business’s lifecycle, why niching works across any industry, and how systems and values create businesses that can run—and grow—without the owner. Joe shares his framework for moving from “job” to “business,” the core values that drive his work, and how agencies can increase profitability by solving real business problems for clients. We also discuss the parallels between MSPs and agencies when it comes to client retention, lifetime value, and building a life you actually want to live.

Key Bytes

• Niching accelerates growth because it clarifies your offer and your audience
• The difference between a lifestyle job and a lifestyle business is scale and delegation
• Core values must be discovered, not invented—and hiring should be based on them
• Profitability can start with your existing clients, not just new ones
• Long-term success comes from solving clients’ business problems, not just delivering services

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and guest intro
01:06 Joe’s journey from the Army to building and selling MSPs
03:18 Understanding the “Start, Grow, Manage” stages
05:03 Why Joe wrote How Entrepreneurs Thrive
06:33 The $1M inflection point and profitability mindset
08:16 Helping clients reclaim their time and freedom
12:20 Building core values that drive the business
16:46 Hiring for abundance mindset and cultural fit
21:07 How Joe’s book applies to agencies today
24:07 Why technology changes but strategy doesn’t
26:08 Expanding accounts by solving deeper problems
28:37 Mapping the client journey for better results
30:21 Rapid fire questions and closing thoughts

Joe is the Founder at Start Grow Manage, based in New York, and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. He empowers Managed Service Providers and entrepreneurs to overcome the challenges of business formation to create profitable, growing businesses. As a serial entrepreneur himself, he has faced the challenge of making new and growing businesses work. His career started in the military, where he became an expert in information technology, eventually forming his own managed services company. Through that experience, he discovered the formula for businesses and learned that entrepreneurs are good at what they do but struggle to build a business.

Connect with Joe on their website.

Ep 123 – Jenny Plant, Account Management Skills – The Secret to Growing Client Accounts Without “Selling”

Featuring: Jenny Plant, Account Management Skills

In episode 123, I sit down with Jenny Plant, founder of Account Management Skills, to talk about why strong account management is the secret weapon for agency growth. Drawing on over 25 years of experience on both the agency and client side, Jenny shares how she helps account managers develop the skills, confidence, and mindset to grow accounts without feeling “salesy.” We discuss the challenges of hybrid AM/PM roles, how to spot rising account management stars, and why curiosity and relationship skills often outweigh industry knowledge. Jenny also dives into her “Four P’s” of AI for account managers—Productivity, Personalization, Prescribe, and Predict—showing how technology can boost proactivity and client value. We wrap with insights on setting growth targets, charging for account management, and building a culture that celebrates account wins as much as new business.

Key Bytes

• Account growth starts with training AMs to be proactive, not just reactive service providers
• Hybrid AM/PM roles often fail to drive growth because delivery takes priority over development
• Curiosity and relationship skills can be more valuable than industry expertise
• AI can help AMs be more productive, personalize interactions, prescribe solutions, and predict client needs
• Co-creating growth targets with AMs boosts buy-in and accuracy
• Celebrating account growth fosters a culture where client retention and expansion matter as much as net new business

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Jenny Plant & Account Management Skills
02:20 Why sales training is vital for account managers
04:16 The challenge of hybrid AM/PM roles in driving growth
08:58 Traits of successful account managers
11:32 Hiring AMs from outside the agency world
13:14 Jenny’s Four P’s of AI for account managers
18:19 Proactivity and presenting ideas to clients
20:38 Co-creating account growth targets
22:55 Charging for account management services
24:36 How many accounts can one AM manage effectively?
28:15 Creating a culture that celebrates account growth

Jenny Plant is the founder of Account Management Skills a training company helping agency account managers retain client relationships and grow accounts.

Jenny has over 25 years in agency account management and has also worked client-side in marketing for an international airline and pharmaceutical company.

Her account management training programmes blend proven client growth methodologies with the integration of AI tools, helping agencies stay relevant, efficient, and proactive.

She also hosts the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast, where she shares insights and interviews to elevate the agency-client relationship management standards across the industry.

Connect with Jenny on their website.

Ep 122 – Arielle Cohen, Business 411 – Building Scalable Systems for a Multi-Seven Figure Agency

Featuring: Arielle Cohen, Business 411

In episode 122, I sit down with Ariel Cohn, founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 401, to talk about how she scaled a multi–seven figure agency by going all-in on the roofing niche. Ariel shares why niching transformed their operations, how they built scalable systems and sister companies to serve the industry, and why embracing AI and virtual teams has been key to their growth. We also dive into the mindset shifts required to build an agency that supports your lifestyle — instead of running you into the ground.

Key Bytes

• Niching down creates clarity, repeatable systems, and faster scaling opportunities
• A sister company approach can build trust and open new revenue streams
• Retainer-based models help stabilize cash flow and increase profitability
• Virtual teams and offshore talent can boost efficiency without sacrificing quality
• Embracing AI is no longer optional — it’s essential for agency survival and growth

Chapters

00:01 Intro and Ariel’s background in roofing marketing
01:12 From generalist to roofing specialist: why niching was key
04:44 Myths about niching and lessons from going all-in
07:32 Defining the ideal client profile and setting minimums
09:00 Early challenges and focusing on revenue first
12:34 Building two complementary companies for growth
16:22 Leveraging virtual teams, overseas talent, and AI for scale
19:07 Retainer models vs. one-off projects for stable growth
20:29 Staying hungry and setting bigger goals
23:18 Embracing AI and adapting to industry change
25:10 Rapid fire: worst advice, daily habits, and explaining her job to a 5-year-old

Arielle Cohen is the Co-Founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 411. With over a decade of experience in marketing, she has mastered the art of growing a Multi 7 Figure Agency through building a scalable and efficient operation. As the company grows, her focus has shifted to optimizing her time and building a dream company that supports her vision and lifestyle—without letting the business take over.

Connect with Arielle at marketing411.com, business411.com, or @arielleCEO on social.

 

Ep 122 – How Forge and Smith Scaled with Low-Code WordPress to Boost Profit and Delivery Speed

Featuring: Shawn Johnston, Forge and Smith

In episode 121, I sit down with Shawn Johnston, founder of Forge and Smith and creator of Refoundry—a low-code WordPress platform that’s transforming how agencies build and deliver websites. We talk about how Shawn cut delivery time by 70%, turned profit margins around using the Profit First method, and transitioned his agency toward a scalable, productized model. He shares insights on navigating developer pushback, balancing client empowerment with agency control, and preparing for evolving tech shifts like AI in web development. Whether you’re struggling with project bottlenecks, shrinking budgets, or scaling challenges, Shawn’s story offers a clear path forward for building smarter, more profitable systems.

Key Bytes

• Refoundry cut Forge and Smith’s development time by 70%, transforming profitability.
• Adopting Profit First changed their approach to pricing and overhead limits.
• Client empowerment through low-code builds loyalty and drives referrals.
• Transitioning leadership allowed Shawn’s team to grow into bigger roles.
• Technological shifts (like Webflow and AI) demand constant agency adaptation.
• Productizing an internal tool opened new revenue streams beyond services.
• Balancing developer pride with client needs is critical for successful adoption.
• Early lessons in print taught Shawn to anticipate and embrace industry change.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction to Shawn Johnston and Forge and Smith
02:11 Moving from freelance to full agency and early challenges
04:39 Implementing Profit First and shifting to scalable systems
06:38 Why Refoundry: Bringing low-code to WordPress
08:22 Cutting development time and improving project profitability
11:23 Developer pushback and prioritizing client empowerment
14:44 Evolving Refoundry into a product for other agencies
17:03 Transitioning leadership and building team collaboration
24:17 Preparing for tech shifts like AI and staying nimble in delivery
28:30 Rapid fire questions and final reflections

Shawn Johnston is the founder of Forge and Smith, a digital agency that’s launched over 500 websites in the past 13 years. After hitting the usual delivery bottlenecks and burnout cycles, he built Refoundry—a low-code platform for WordPress that helped his team cut build times by 70% and scale without sacrificing quality. Now he’s on a mission to help other agencies streamline delivery, boost margins, and build systems that actually work.

Contact Shawn on Forge and Smith or Refoundry.

Ep 120 – Greg Bellinger, White Rabbit – What Happens When You Niche Hard and Go All In

Featuring: Greg Bellinger, White Rabbit

In episode 120, I sit down with Greg Bellinger, co-founder and CEO of White Rabbit, a web and mobile development agency with nearly 100 in-house employees spread across Colombia, India, and the U.S. Greg shares his journey from frontend developer to visionary CEO and breaks down how White Rabbit scaled by staying focused on one niche—supporting other agencies.

We explore why White Rabbit only hires full-time employees, how niching into agency delivery gave them a competitive edge, and the strategic thinking behind launching their own internal project financial software. Greg also talks about his passion for creation, not just in code but in culture, leadership, and future products. This one’s full of takeaways for agency owners looking to scale with purpose.

Key Bytes

• Greg shares why they only hire full-time employees and the cultural benefits that come with it
• He explains how niching into working with agencies helped them scale more efficiently
• Greg reflects on stepping away from product management and letting his leadership team shine
• He talks about the challenges of managing across three countries and how they keep their culture unified
• Greg reveals details about their custom-built project management and financial tool
• He offers insight into people management, tough conversations, and protecting your energy
• He shares his personal philosophy of “create,” from coding to building culture
• Greg discusses what entrepreneurship means to him and how it’s been part of his DNA from the start

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and guest intro
01:00 The origin of White Rabbit and its full-time hiring philosophy
02:30 Transitioning out of coding and project management
06:00 Working exclusively with agencies vs. going direct
07:15 Niching and its impact on growth and clarity
10:00 Scaling globally: why Colombia, India, and the U.S.
12:00 Uniting culture across three countries
14:00 Vision for the future: stepping back, launching products
16:30 Building internal software for project and financial management
19:00 Lessons in people management and entrepreneurship
25:00 Rapid fire: guilty pleasures, two-word advice, and dream hire

Greg Bellinger is the Co-Founder and CEO of White Rabbit Group, a web and mobile development agency with a fully in-house team of nearly 100 employees across three countries. His passion for technology began in childhood, leading him to hand-code his first websites in 2008. In 2016, he co-founded White Rabbit Group, building it into a trusted development partner for world-class agencies and creatives. Under his leadership, the company has earned a reputation for delivering high-quality digital solutions while fostering a close culture of technical experts.

Contact Greg on the White Rabbit website or on LinkedIn.

Ep 119 – Jessica Malnik – Building Your B2B Content Moat

Featuring: Jessica Malnik

In episode 119, I sit down with Jessica Malnik, a B2B messaging strategist who’s helped over 75 founders and lean marketing teams craft content that actually gets read—and drives results. We talk about the risks of over-commoditized content in the age of AI and why a flood of “cheap” output isn’t a strategy. Jessica walks me through her signature framework, the Marketing MOAT, which focuses on Messaging, Distribution, and Content Efficiency.

She also shares practical, low-lift ways agencies can build content machines, maximize existing assets, and stay consistent without burning out. We even talk about content imposter syndrome, the curse of knowledge, and why you don’t have to be totally unique—you just need to show up as yourself.

If you’ve ever struggled with creating content that converts (and keeps converting), this episode is packed with clarity, systems, and smart takes that’ll help you raise your signal-to-noise ratio.

Key Bytes

• Messaging without a unique perspective leads to content that gets ignored
• AI-only content creation can dilute your brand and commoditize your services
• Her “Marketing MOAT” framework focuses on messaging, distribution, and content efficiency
• Distribution must be built into strategy from the beginning, not as an afterthought
• Agencies should reuse and repurpose evergreen content instead of always creating new
• Consistency (3x/week on LinkedIn) matters more than frequency spikes
• Authenticity in content doesn’t mean oversharing—it means resonance
• Set goals based on team size, budget, and business stage, then reverse engineer your strategy

Chapters

00:01 Welcome and intro to Jessica Malnik
01:46 Common agency messaging mistakes
03:26 Why AI-only content is risky for agencies
05:14 Jessica’s Marketing MOAT framework explained
07:21 How to develop “spiky” messaging and content positioning
10:34 Distribution strategy: where your audience actually is
14:04 Own your content—don’t rely only on social algorithms
15:09 Content efficiency and repurposing systems
19:00 Best practices for publishing frequency
21:16 Balancing personal and professional content
22:28 Reverse engineering content strategy based on goals
23:41 Rapid Fire Q&A with Jessica

Jessica Malnik has helped over 75 B2B founders and lean marketing teams fix their positioning and craft messaging people actually read and respond to.

She’s spoken at half a dozen in-person conferences in the U.S., Australia, and Thailand, as well as dozens of virtual webinars, workshops, and podcast guest appearances. She’s also been featured in WSJ, The Next Web, MicroConf, Wynter, SXSW, and MSN UK, among many others.

Contact Jessica on their website or join their newsletter.

Ep 118 – Jamie Brindle – From Freelancer to Entrelancer: Building a Business That Scales

Featuring: Jamie Brindle

In episode 118, I’m joined by Jamie Brindle—a freelancer, strategist, and creator who’s built a half-million-strong audience around helping creative solopreneurs build sustainable, scalable freelance businesses. In this conversation, Jamie breaks down what it means to be an “Entrelancer”—a hybrid of entrepreneur and freelancer—and why the traditional view of freelancing is overdue for a reboot.

We talk about why having an audience builds instant trust, how freelancers can evolve into business owners without employees, and the myths around websites and portfolios that keep too many creatives stuck in planning mode instead of taking action. Jamie also shares a powerful framework for moving strangers into long-term client relationships—and why every freelancer should be thinking like a strategist, not just a task-taker.

Whether you’re freelancing, running an agency, or somewhere in between, this one’s packed with fresh thinking.

Key Bytes

• Jamie shares the origin of the term “Entrelancer”—and how it reflects a more modern, business-minded freelancer.
• He explains how their TikTok content (originally not for clients) unexpectedly opened doors to Fortune 100 opportunities.
• We dig into the importance of digital products, productized services, and building systems to support time freedom.
• Jamie outlines the four stages of the customer journey: Stranger → Lead → Client → Client for Life.
• He gives a masterclass in how to manufacture delight, over-deliver, and secure repeat work.
• We challenge the sacred cows of freelancer websites and portfolios—and why Jamie believes they’re massive time-wasters.
• Sales anxiety? Jamie offers a grounded, simple mindset shift that removes pressure and focuses on being helpful.
• He explains how positioning yourself as a solution—not a task-taker—is the unlock to charging more and building authority.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and Intro to Jamie Brindle
01:00 The accidental power of TikTok and building trust
04:30 Redefining success as a freelancer
07:00 “Entrelancer” vs. freelancer: What’s the difference?
11:40 Scaling without employees: Productized and digital offers
13:00 Pivoting from video work to social media consulting
15:25 Lessons from shifting services and getting back in the field
19:30 Jamie’s four stages of the customer journey
24:00 Reframing sales: It’s just solving a problem
28:00 Positioning yourself as a strategic partner
34:00 Why portfolios and websites are the biggest time wasters
37:00 Final thoughts and closing

Jamie Brindle is a freelancer who gives advice to over half a million other creatives on social media about building a scalable and sustainable freelance business.

Contact Jamie on their website or @thejamiebrindle on all socials.

Ep 117 – Wanda Allen, Follow Up Sales – Overcoming the Fear of Follow-Up

Featuring: Wanda Allen, Follow Up Sales

In episode 117, I sit down with Wanda Allen, international speaker, coach, and author of Follow Up Sales Strategies. With 25 years in the corporate world and a background in business banking, Wanda developed a systemized approach to sales follow-up that now helps business owners and sales professionals increase their close rates.

We dive into the psychology behind why so many people avoid follow-up, the fears that hold them back (hint: it’s not really about time), and how a simple shift in mindset and process can transform your sales pipeline. Wanda shares data-backed insights, actionable tips for improving follow-up cadence, and even debunks myths about being “pushy.” Whether you’re in active outreach or avoiding the phone like the plague, this episode will motivate you to reframe your follow-up game—and pick up the phone with purpose.

We also talk about her book-writing journey, the importance of believing in the value you bring, and a bucket-list dream that has her heading south of the border.

Key Bytes

• 98% of sales don’t happen on the first contact—follow-up is essential.
• Fear of being “pushy” and fear of rejection are the top two mindset blocks around follow-up.
• 80% of sales happen between the 5th and 12th contact—most people quit after 2.
• Follow-up is a form of service, not pressure—it shows interest and professionalism.
• The phone is the most efficient tool in sales, yet it’s the most underused.
• You can’t build trust without consistent, committed follow-up.
• Stop assuming silence means disinterest—prospects are often just busy.
• Confidence in your pricing comes from believing in your value.

Chapters

00:01 – Introducing Wanda Allen and the importance of follow-up
01:04 – From corporate banking to follow-up systems expert
03:35 – Writing two books and why her first was retired
06:07 – The real reason people don’t follow up: mindset and fear
07:59 – How to prioritize follow-up and overcome procrastination
11:00 – Why consistent follow-up beats your competition
14:12 – Action over anxiety: staying out of your head during follow-up
16:18 – The forgotten power of the phone in today’s sales world

 

Wanda Allen is an international speaker, coach, and corporate trainer. She's also the author of Follow Up Savvy and Follow Up Sales Strategies. Wanda had a 25 year corporate career where she held the position of Senior Vice President for 15 years. She has a strong skill set for developing systems and applied this skill to the follow up process. She's an expert in helping entrepreneurs, business owners, and sales professionals increase pipelines, improve sales performance, and strengthen relationships by developing strong follow up skills.

Contact Wanda on their website, LinkedIn, or Facebook.