Agency Bytes

How Steve Guberman Built, Sold, and Reinvented His Agency — Season 4 Kickoff

Featuring Guest Host: Todd Giannattasio, Tresnic Media

In episode 150, I flipped the mic. To kick off Season 4, I handed the host chair to my friend Todd Giannattasio of Tresnic Media — a returning guest from episode 10, and the guy who helped me name Agency Outsight in the first place.

This one's more personal than most. Todd walks me through my journey from screw-off art kid to graphic designer to accidental agency owner, the acquisition that should have been the first of many, selling my agency, and the grief that ultimately reshaped how I think about purpose, work, and what a business is really for. We get into the asset mindset, programmatic M&A as a growth lever, why most founders pay themselves last (and shouldn't), and the copycat goals that keep agency owners chasing someone else's dream.

If you've ever wondered what's actually on the other side of an exit — or whether you're building a business or just a really demanding job — this is the conversation.

Key Bytes

• Most agency founders accidentally build a job, not an asset — and the difference shows up the day you try to sell.

• Programmatic M&A unlocks exponential growth that organic effort simply can't match.

• Buying talent is faster, safer, and more predictable than hiring it.

• You don't need a truckload of cash to acquire — SBA loans, earnouts, and seller financing make deals possible at almost any size.

• Paying yourself last isn't noble — it's a habit that quietly devalues the business you built.

• Copycat revenue goals pull founders into chasing numbers that mean nothing to their actual life.

• Grief, burnout, and life events have a way of forcing the clarity most founders avoid.

• Creative empathy — not tactics — is still the most underrated edge agency owners have.

Chapters

00:00 Flipping the mic: why Todd is interviewing me

02:47 From screw-off art kid to graphic designer

05:30 Starting the agency with ego and no business plan

08:25 The acquisition I should have repeated four times

11:00 Selling the agency and what came after

14:30 Grief, COVID, and finding purpose in the garden

17:10 Launching Agency Outsight and pricing it on instinct

21:40 The asset mindset: building enterprise value

26:00 Programmatic M&A as the real growth lever

30:15 Why founders pay themselves last (and shouldn't)

33:00 Copycat goals and chasing someone else's dream

36:00 Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts

Steve Guberman is the founder of Agency Outsight and the host of Agency Bytes, the podcast for agency owners who want real conversations about building, growing, and eventually selling the business they've worked so hard to create. A former agency founder who successfully exited his own firm, Steve now coaches creative, marketing, and digital leaders through the challenges of growth, positioning, and the complex decisions that come with scaling or selling an agency. As both a coach and M&A advisor, he helps owners see what truly drives long-term value — financially and personally — and through Agency Bytes, he brings that same lens to every conversation, pulling honest stories and hard-won lessons from the agency world's most respected leaders.

Todd Giannattasio is the founder of Tresnic Media, where he helps brands grow online through systems built on what he calls Helpful and Humanized marketing — a combination of fundamental principles and modern strategy that's earned him features in Entrepreneur, Forbes, and Huffington Post. A veteran marketer with more than two decades in digital communications, Todd has worked with brands ranging from Universal Records and BASF to growing startups and small businesses, giving him a rare perspective on what actually moves the needle at every stage of growth. Certified through DigitalMarketer, HubSpot, and the Jordan Belfort Straight Line Sales and Persuasion System, he's also a sought-after speaker at top events for entrepreneurs and innovators across the country — and a longtime friend of the show, returning to Agency Bytes to flip the mic and interview Steve for this Season 4 kickoff.

Contact Todd on LinkedIn or his website.

Ep 149 – David Wain-Heapy, Prodigi – Remote-Ready Agencies Win: Systems Before Scale

Featuring: David Wain-Heapy, Prodigi

In episode 149, I sit down with David Wain-Heapy, founder of Prodigy, a company that helps agencies and digital businesses build flexible, scalable remote teams through global talent sourcing.

David spent 14 years building and running a Magento-focused e-commerce agency out of central London before selling it to Brave Bison PLC. We talk through what that exit process actually looked like, why the right acquirer matters as much as the right offer, and how building systems independent of the founders made the transition possible.

From there, we get into the real substance of what David does now: helping agencies shift from an outsourcing mindset to an offshore hiring mindset. There's a difference, and it matters. Agency owners will come away with a clearer framework for when and how to integrate global talent, how to think about time zones, which roles translate well offshore, and what AI is actually doing — and not yet doing — to development teams in agencies right now.

Key Bytes

• Outsourcing and offshore hiring are not the same thing — one is a handoff, the other is a hire.
• The fix for a failed first attempt wasn't better talent, it was better integration — sprints, tools, and cadence.
• Building a business that runs independently of you isn't just good leadership, it's what makes you acquirable.
• The right acquirer matters as much as the right offer — alignment on team and culture is what made a six-month handoff possible.
• East Coast agencies fit well with Eastern European talent; West Coast agencies are better served by South and Central America.
• AI handles contained tasks well, but it still can't hold the context of an enterprise-scale project.
• The people who will thrive in an AI-augmented world are the ones who bring real creativity — the architects and problem-solvers, not just the executors.

Chapters

00:00 Why this conversation matters for agency owners right now
01:45 David's 14-year agency journey and building in a competitive London market
05:10 The first attempt at offshore talent and why it failed
08:30 Selling to Brave Bison: what the exit process actually looked like
13:15 Choosing the right acquirer and making a clean handoff
17:00 Outsourcing vs. offshore hiring: why the mindset shift changes everything
21:30 How to think about time zones when sourcing global talent
24:45 What systems agencies need before hiring offshore
28:00 Where AI is actually helping agency dev teams right now
33:20 Which roles work well offshore and which don't
37:50 Rapid fire: surfing in Bristol, letting go of control, and a risky bet that paid off

David Wain-Heapy is an experienced founder currently focused on building remote teams for digital businesses with Prodigi.

Having sold my digital agency to Brave Bison PLC, I am now working to provide a flexible and scalable solution that enables companies to take control of hiring by looking at a global talent pool.

I have many years experience building globally distributed teams of digital professionals and leading them to help great businesses win in the race for attention and accelerate their digital growth.

Contact David on LinkedIn or the Prodigi website.

Ep 148 – Cameron Herold, COO Alliance – Work On the Business: The COO Mindset Agencies Need Now

Featuring: Cameron Herold, COO Alliance

In episode 148, I sit down with Cameron Herold, founder of COO Alliance and one of the most recognized voices in operational leadership, to talk about the mindset shift agency owners desperately need right now: stepping into the role of CEO and building a true COO mindset inside their business.

Cameron has helped scale companies like 1-800-GOT-JUNK and advised hundreds of growth-stage businesses, and in this conversation, we unpack what it really means to work on the business instead of being trapped inside it. We talk about the operator’s lens, how founders accidentally become bottlenecks, and why operational maturity is often the difference between a lifestyle business and a scalable asset.

If you’re an agency owner who feels stretched thin, stuck in delivery, or unsure how to elevate your leadership team, this one is a masterclass in stepping up and leveling up.

Key Bytes

• The CEO’s job is vision. The COO’s job is execution. Most agency owners are trying to do both — and burning out.
• Operational discipline isn’t about bureaucracy — it’s about freeing the founder from the day-to-day.
• If you’re still the glue holding everything together, you don’t have a scalable business — you have a dependency.
• Working on the business requires intentional systems, delegation maturity, and the courage to step back.
• Strong operators build companies that can grow, sell, or run without the founder in the weeds.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome & Cameron’s Scaling Background
04:12 The Difference Between a Founder and a CEO
09:48 Why Most Agencies Don’t Truly Work “On” the Business
16:35 The COO Mindset Explained
23:10 Founders as Bottlenecks
31:42 Building Operational Discipline Without Red Tape
40:18 Hiring & Developing Strong Operators
49:03 Scaling vs. Lifestyle Businesses
57:25 Final Advice for Agency Owners

Cameron Herold is the mastermind behind the exponential growth of hundreds of companies globally. Founder of the COO Alliance and Invest In Your Leaders training. Cameron is known as the "CEO Whisperer" and is also the former COO of 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, where he engineered the company's spectacular growth from $2 million to $106 million in revenue in just six years.

The publisher of Forbes magazine, Rich Karlgaard, stated, "Cameron Herold is the best speaker I've ever heard...he hits grand slams”. Cameron is the host of the Second In Command podcast, author of 6 bestselling books, including The Second In Command, Vivid Vision, Meetings Suck, Free PR, Double Double, and The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs.

Cameron is a top-rated international speaker and has been paid to speak in 26 countries and on all 7 continents, including Antarctica in early 2022.

Contact Cameron:
www.cooalliance.com
www.cameronherold.com
https://www.instagram.com/cameron_herold_cooalliance
https://www.facebook.com/COOAlliance/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameronherold
https://www.linkedin.com/company/coo-alliance/
https://twitter.com/cooalliance
https://www.youtube.com/@CameronHerold?sub_confirmation=1
https://cooalliance.com/vivid-vision/

Ep 147 – Amy Hood, Hoodzpah Design – Make the Work You Want: The Proactive Path to Better Clients

Featuring: Amy Hood, Hoodzpah Design

In episode 147, I sit down with Amy Hood, designer and co-founder of Hoodzpah Design, the Southern California brand identity studio behind work for Disney, Nike, Netflix, Target, and the Lakers. Amy and her twin sister Jen built Hoodzpah out of necessity after realizing they were “unhireable on paper,” and turned it into a nimble, right-sized studio that’s intentionally stayed small to protect speed, momentum, and creative quality.

We talk about why “make the work you want to get” is still the most reliable path to better clients, how relationships compound when you lead with curiosity (not strategy), and why creatives have to treat marketing as part of the job if they want opportunities to find them.

Amy also shares the story behind Hoodspa’s Adobe MAX banner plane stunt (“No more broke creatives”), what they learned from taking a big marketing swing, and how they’re shifting from service work into products like their updated book Freelance, and Business, and Stuff and the Fort font subscription app.

Key Bytes

• Making the work you want to get is still the fastest way to change the caliber of clients you attract.
• Staying small on purpose can be a growth strategy — speed and momentum beat bureaucracy.
• If you don’t share your work, people can’t refer you because there’s no proof you exist.
• Spectacle marketing works when it’s aligned, intentional, and captures attention in a sea of noise.
• Diversifying income through products creates longevity — especially when your body can’t grind forever.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome + who Amy Hood is
01:05 Hoodzpah’s origin: “unhireable on paper” to studio owners
02:59 Twin partnership: dividing roles and avoiding scorekeeping
08:41 Staying small on purpose (and why bigger can be slower)
11:18 Landing better clients by making the work you want
18:03 Dream clients + putting your hat in the ring
21:00 Adobe MAX banner plane: “No more broke creatives”
28:40 From service to product: book, fonts, and Fort app
31:48 Font licensing fear and why clients are gun-shy
38:44 Rapid fire: resets, creative myths, and boundaries

Amy Hood is a designer and co-founder of Hoodzpah, Inc, a brand identity studio in Southern California that has worked with companies like Disney, 20th Century, Nike, The Lakers, Target, and Netflix. Amy's logo and identity work centers around custom lettering solutions. She is the font designer behind Palm Canyon Drive, Beale, and Beverly Drive. When she's not stress-watching Laker games, Amy can be found at the beach, plein-air doodling, and practicing her Smashball backhand. She co-authored the book “Freelance, and Business, and Stuff: A Guide for Creatives” (and its related online course) with her sister Jennifer, based on the Professional Practices class they taught at Laguna College of Art & Design.

Contact Amy, grab their book, or fonts all on the Hoodzpah website, Instagram, or YouTube channels.

Ep 146 – The Cost of Replacing Humans With AI—and the Course Correction

Featuring: Dorien Morin-van Dam, More In Media

In episode 146, I’m joined by Doreen Morin-van Dam, a content strategist with more than 15 years of experience helping brands grow through smart, sustainable marketing. Doreen works with teams on how to use AI responsibly and effectively, hosts the Strategy Talks video podcast, and is known for blending emerging tech with deeply human content strategies.

We dig into what really happened when companies rushed to replace humans with AI in 2025—and why many of them quietly reversed course by Q4. Doreen shares what she’s seeing brands regret most, how “AI slop” became a real problem, and why human-led content is becoming a competitive advantage again. We also explore how agencies can use AI as a strategic partner (not a shortcut), why long-form content matters more than ever, and how organic and paid media must work together. This is a grounded, practical conversation for agency owners trying to navigate AI without losing trust, quality, or their voice.

Key Bytes
• Why replacing humans with AI backfired for many brands in 2025
• How AI slop diluted trust, performance, and differentiation
• Why humans must remain the source of truth in content strategy
• How to use AI to analyze, enhance, and scale—not replace—expertise
• Why long-form, opinionated content performs better with LLMs
• How organic social still drives testing, trust, and paid performance
• Why being different beats being “better” in crowded markets
• How agencies should rethink in-house marketing investment

Chapters
00:00 Why 2025 became the “AI correction year”
02:30 What brands got wrong when they replaced people with AI
05:45 Why agencies must treat themselves as their best client
08:55 AI avatars, ethical concerns, and consumer trust
11:30 From AI slop to human-led strategy
15:05 Humans as the source of truth in content
19:45 Why long-form content matters for AI discovery
21:20 Organic social isn’t dead—it’s misunderstood
26:25 Organic + paid: why they must work together
28:00 Rapid-fire questions and practical takeaways

Dorien Morin-van Dam is a Vermont-based content strategist with over 15 years of experience helping brands grow through smart, sustainable strategies. A Certified Social Media Manager and Agile Marketer, she also consults on AI strategy for small businesses, showing teams how to use AI in marketing responsibly and effectively. Dorien turns organic content and emerging tech into measurable results, speaks internationally, and hosts the Strategy Talks video podcast. You’ll recognize her on stage and online by her signature orange glasses, a nod to her Dutch heritage.

Check out Dorien’s website, connect on LinkedIn, or tune into the Strategy Talks podcast.

Ep 145 – Jessica Hische, Studioworks – Crafting a Creative Life on Your Own Terms

Featuring: Jessica Hische, Studioworks

In episode 145, I sit down with Jessica Hische—a world-renowned lettering artist, New York Times bestselling author, and one of the most thoughtful creative voices of our generation. And full transparency: I’ve been a huge fan of Jessica’s work for a long time. Her ability to pair obsessive craft with clarity, intention, and humanity has influenced how I think about creative work for years.

This conversation goes far beyond tactics or tools. We dig into what it really means to answer a creative calling—and then protect it. Jessica shares how she’s built a career that honors her instincts, values her time, and stays deeply connected to her craft, without burning out or selling out. We talk about the choices she’s made to stay true to her creative voice, even when external pressure—clients, platforms, trends, or scale—could easily pull things off course.

We also explore the less romantic but absolutely essential side of creative freedom: boundaries, systems, pricing, and self-advocacy. Jessica opens up about how she’s learned to put structure around her work not as a constraint, but as a way to preserve joy, sustainability, and long-term creative integrity. Whether it’s choosing the right projects, saying no without guilt, or building tools that support creatives instead of exploiting them, her through-line is clear: creativity thrives when it’s respected.

For agency owners and creative leaders, this episode is a powerful reminder that building a business—or a career—on your own terms isn’t about sacrificing ambition. It’s about defining success for yourself, staying grounded in your craft, and making intentional choices that allow your work, and your life, to evolve together.

This one felt special to record—and I think it’ll resonate deeply with anyone trying to build something meaningful, creatively and personally.

Key Bytes
• Why answering a creative calling is an ongoing commitment, not a one-time decision
• How staying true to your craft doesn’t require self-sacrifice
• The role boundaries and structure play in long-term creative freedom
• Why defining success for yourself is the real creative advantage
• How creatives can grow without burning out or losing their voice

Chapters
00:00 Following a creative calling
06:40 Staying true to your craft over time
14:10 Defining success on your own terms
22:35 Boundaries, pricing, and protecting creative energy
31:20 Structure as a support, not a constraint
40:05 Evolving creatively without losing yourself
48:30 Advice for creatives building sustainable careers

Jessica Hische is a lettering artist and New York Times Best-selling author based in Oakland, California. She specializes in typographical work for logos, film, books, and other commercial applications. Her clients include Wes Anderson, The United States Postal Service, Target, Hallmark, and Penguin Books and her work has been featured again and again in design and illustration annuals both in the US and internationally. She’s been named a Print Magazine New Visual Artist (20 under 30), one of Forbes 30 under 30 in Art and Design, an ADC Young Gun, a “Person to Watch” by GD USA, and an Adweek “Creative 100”. She's also the co-founder of Studioworks, invoicing software for creatives by creatives.

Contact Jessica on their website, Threads, and Instagram, and learn about Studioworks here.

Ep 144 – Ali Mirza, Rose Garden Consulting – Intentional Selling: Build a Pipeline That Doesn’t Depend on the Founder

Featuring: Ali Mirza, Rose Garden Consulting

In episode 144, I’m joined by Ali Mirza, a sales expert who’s personally closed over $450 million in revenue and advised hundreds of high-growth companies, including multiple Inc. 500 winners and successful exits.

Ali and I dig into what’s really broken in agency sales today — from why “more leads” isn’t the answer, to how founders unintentionally sabotage deals, to the mindset shifts required to close larger, more confident engagements. This conversation is especially relevant for agency owners who are great at delivery but feel stuck, uncomfortable, or inconsistent when it comes to selling.

We talk candidly about sales systems vs. sales personalities, the danger of winging it, and how agencies can move from reactive selling to intentional, scalable growth without becoming someone they’re not.

Key Bytes

• Why “just getting more leads” rarely fixes agency sales problems
• The hidden mindset traps that keep agency owners underpricing
• How confidence (not pressure) actually drives better close rates
• The difference between selling expertise vs. selling outcomes
• Why inconsistent sales processes hurt valuation and scalability

Chapters

00:00 Why agency sales feels harder than it should
04:32 The biggest sales myths agency owners believe
09:15 Why confidence matters more than scripts
14:40 Selling outcomes vs. selling services
20:05 How founders accidentally sabotage deals
26:18 Pricing fear and the psychology behind it
32:10 Building a repeatable sales process
38:45 What great agency sales leadership really looks like
44:20 Final advice for agency owners who hate selling

Ali Mirza is a sales expert who has personally closed over $450 million in sales with multiple Inc. 500 companies and high-growth startups.

His work has been featured in Inc., Forbes, Huffington Post, Business Insider, and more. He has consulted for hundreds of companies, with 17 earning the Inc. 500 Fastest Growing Companies award and three successfully acquired. He is president of Atlanta-based consulting firm, Rose Garden.

Connect with Ali on his personal website, his consulting website, or on his Instagram.

Ep 143 – Sharon Toerek, Legal and Creative – The Legal Blind Spots Costing Agencies Millions

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Featuring: Sharon Toerek, Legal and Creative

In episode 143, I dig into one of the most underestimated risks in agency ownership: the legal blind spots that quietly cost agencies millions over time.

From contracts and scope creep to client disputes, IP ownership, and liability exposure, we unpack where agencies unknowingly put themselves at risk — and why most don’t realize it until it’s too late.

This conversation is a must-listen for agency owners who want to protect what they’ve built, reduce unnecessary exposure, and stop treating legal as an afterthought instead of a growth safeguard.

Key Bytes
• Most agencies don’t realize their biggest legal risks until a problem hits
• Poor contracts quietly drain profit long before lawsuits happen
• Scope creep is as much a legal issue as it is a pricing issue
• IP ownership mistakes can create long-term client and valuation problems
• Proactive legal structure is a growth advantage, not a cost center

Chapters
00:00 Why legal blind spots are so common in agencies
04:15 The contracts agencies rely on (and why they fall short)
10:20 Scope creep as a legal and financial issue
18:05 IP ownership mistakes that come back years later
26:40 Client disputes: where agencies expose themselves
34:10 Risk vs. fear: what actually matters legally
42:00 Simple fixes agency owners can make now
50:10 How legal hygiene protects valuation and exit
56:30 Final thoughts & wrap-up

Sharon Toerek is Founder of Toerek Law (doing business in the agency world as Legal + Creative), where she focuses her national law practice on helping advertising, marketing, communications, and creative agencies protect their assets and turn their ideas into revenue.

Sharon provides proactive, strategic counsel to communications, marketing, advertising, digital, and creative agencies on legal and business issues they face continually in their work, including:
• agency-client relationships, including agency service contracts
• agency-freelancer and agency strategic alliance relationship management
• trademark and copyright protection, enforcement, and licensing
• influencer marketing negotiations and content marketing legal compliance• advertising regulatory compliance
• AI policy and risk management for agencies

Sharon is an approved participant on the 4A's Legal Consultants Panel and a member of the 4A’s Expert Network. She has also served as President of the American Ad Federation (AAF) Cleveland and has been elected to AAF Cleveland’s Hall of Fame.

In addition to her Firm’s work representing U.S. independent agencies, Sharon
• Created the Legal + Creative Agency Protection System, a comprehensive legal education and legal toolkit for marketing, ad and creative services agencies
• Created and hosted over 300 episodes of the agency-focused podcast The Innovative Agency, a podcast about innovation and trends in the marketing agency world
• Presents sessions on agency-critical legal topics to independent agency networks, to private agency audiences, and at industry conferences, including INBOUND, Content Marketing World, MAICON, the Build a Better Agency Summit, Own It Summit, Mirren New York, and PRSA Counselors Academy.

Contact Sharon on LinkedIn or on their website.